October 11 2017 @20:30 UTC 🔼

Location: https://meet.jit.si/devuan

Present: golinux, CenturionDan, fsmithred, blinkdog, evilham, parazyd(IRC/pad), flibbertgibbet, tremon, KatolaZ, gnusrs (pad)

Notes 🔼

KatolaZ 🔼

• Like the new pad
• (golinux) The colors suck. Will hopefully be changed soon. The fist is also gone!

blinkdog 🔼

• Will attend, FSM willing

rrq 🔼

• will attend
• status of newtonia-nemesis / ganeti set up
• newtonia is set up and added into the ganeti cluster, as master-capable node
• local subnets are linked using "ipsec" (lanbr to lanbr, and gntbr to gntbr)
• the ipsec linking needs subnet host routes to be managed with instances; presently by manual blessing

CenturionDan 🔼

• likes that the new icon for cryptpad, but colour scheme not so much
• has enabled parazyd to do more on the ci and packaging.
• has engaged with rrq towards getting ganeti running.
• proposes
• keen to setup an infrastructure working group with a focus on dealing with:

      - the current friction in the build process that is slowing work on ascii
      - decide and action upgrade gitlab or replacement with something better
        * (what "better" means will have to be defined by the working group)
  * suggest a working group is also formed to discuss ascii release and particularly the inclusion of AntoFox's Mate and Cinammon packages.
  * Move all services from nextime's infrastructure to Devuan's ganeti infrastructure as soon as reasonably possible.

golinux 🔼

• Talked to the cryptpad folks about theming but the file they pointed me to only contains the orange BG color for the code pad as well as the bg colors for all the other pad options ie presentation, poll, rich text etc . Will poke around their github to try to find the rest of the equation
• Now that Evilham is back, will try to tidy up the website.

parazyd 🔼

• won't be attending video/audio
• (golinux) very bad timing
• will be setting up the arm64 build node for jenkins
• rsyslog is done, just needs to be built now on a proper arm64 machine
• build005 should be updated to ascii so we can build newer versions of sysvinit and util-linux
• (gnu_srs) I can upgrade build005 to ascii if you want to. Anything specific?
  • (parazyd) no, just a simple ascii upgrade. update any qemu installations as well if there are any (i think arm64)
• antofox accepted his package inclusion. please discuss the path to proceed with this

fsmithred 🔼

• I don't see where to log in. It didn't ask when I got here.
• (golinux) Login to your account here https://pad.dyne.org/ and then open the pad. You can also change your name from the top right
• Will attend.
• New signing key: (I guess I should email this to someone. Want it encrypted?)

  <code>
      pub   4096R/094C5620 2017-10-07 [expires: 2018-10-07]
            Key fingerprint = 67F5 0132 1627 1E85 C251  E480 A738 23D3
            094C 5620
      uid                  fsmithred (aka fsr) <fsmithred@gmail.com>
      sub   4096R/77774219 2017-10-07 [expires: 2018-10-07]</code>
  * (golinux) I guess that will have to be changed on the 'Team' page of the site?
  * (blinkdog)
    <code>
      gpg --recv-keys 094C5620
      gpg --export --armor 094C5620</code>
* refracta forum dilemma with tapatalk hosting and possible migration to the VPS (where d1g started)

tremon 🔼

(golinux had difficulty deciphering who said what in this section.)

• eudev seems to be working fine (2 machines tested)
• the 220 epoch is irksome (it looks amateurish)
• (gnu_srs) As I wrote in the email it is ugly. I propose 220-3.2.2-devuan2.x as name. And not install the epoch versions from experimental in ascii*
  • yep, that will do. But I'd prefer if it didn't have the old system version number in it.
  • upstream eudev simply uses 3.2.2, and we can reuse that or add an epoch of 1
    • No we can not use 3.2.2 or 220-3.2.2 etc. Current version on my box is is 232-22
    • why not? man deb-version(5) says that is what we should do,
      1. To verify:

            <code>
                  dpkg --compare-versions 1:3.2.2 ge 220-whatever-version-systemd-uses && echo true</code>
          * (i think we've tried this a few times. the problem i encountered is that packages depend on the epoch, iirc. ~parazyd)
  * (gnu_srs) I proposed to rename everyting to eudev, also libudev* But that was not accepted by parazyd
    * (parazyd) and it won't. a thing called libeudev does not exist in real world. eudev also implements libudev as is.
      * (gnu_srs) Well, let's use 1:220-3.2.2-x then
    * (tremon) If there is no other solution, then we can use whatever works. But it's not clear to me why an epoch of 1 wouldn't work -- unless other packages have explicit dependencies on a specific libudev version but in that case, the 220 epoch shouldn't work either most jessie packages depend on >=215; not sure about ascii yet
  * stretch-backports (stable) has 234-3+... So 220-something wouldn't work.
  * dpkg --compare-versions 1:0.1 ge 234-3+  ## even 1:0.1 is greater than an epoch of 0
    * As I wrote above, let's use 1:220-3.2.2-x, i.e. the epoch is 1, not 220
      * can you provide such a package before patching devuan-packages/eudev ?
        * this would require testing on real-world/desktop systems.
        * we've tried a similar thing before, but it has not proven well
  * https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/eudev (suites/experimental branch)
  * (tremon) will do
    * so you will take over maintainership?
      * if that's what it takes -- I want to at least try
        * parazyd and I have made the latest releases. Do you feel strongly for doing this?
          * ideally, I don't want packages to be maintained by individuals. But if I am asked to contribute, I will try
        * parazyd you decide
          * feel free to submit patches
* will attend, but leave early

flibbertgibbet 🔼

• will attend for some of the session
• fod wiki upgraded to latest version

Discussion 🔼

Decide name for the "LEAD group" 🔼

(golinux) will be voted on by the CTTE

• CTTE - jaromil
• Devuan Steering Committee (DSC) - John Franklin
• Caretakers (CT) - golinux (+)(+)
• Interim Devuan Executive Committee (IDEC) - Chanku
• Loyal Order of Devuan Poobahs (LODP) - blinkdog

Decide final configuration of the CTTE 🔼

• compromise proposed by golinux. Rejected by jaromil
• jaromil and parazyd (sharing one Dyne vote)
• Centurion_Dan
• KatolaZ
• rrq
• Evilham
  • (golinux) note that the vote sharing was initially conceived as a way to include 6 people within the 5 person structure originally

• New options proposed by golinux
• 1. Either jaromil or parazyd step aside (response below)
• 2. We expand the CTTE to 6 (0 votes)
• 3. We expand the CTTE to 7 by adding fsmithred into the mix (2

• Evilham's comments on the new options:

    * 1. Would be OK if parazyd is guaranteed to have access to anything he needs. 4/5 majority needed to avoid the "51% phenomenon"
      * (parazyd also agrees with this)
        * (golinux) With parazyd's agreement, this option is identical to the one proposed by Centurion_Dan below
    * 2. Is no good, it can lead to perfectly split opinions and is not much better than current state of affairs.
    * 3. Would also be good, with 5/7 majority to avoid the "51% phenomenon".

• Dan's proposal
• leadership group members
  1.  jaromil
  2.  Centurion_Dan
  3.  KatolaZ
  4.  rrq
  5.  Evilham
• leadership group chooses it's own name. (golinux) see choices
• (golinux) this would allow parazyd to do what he does best - write beautiful code rather than be saddled with 'committee' stuff
• (blinkdog) add a timeline to revisit this committee? (ascii release + 1 month, after 1 year, other?)

• Open or restricted communication?
• (golinux) Open discussions will continue as now

• Is attendance at meetings important?
• Yes! A good time was had by all.