October 25 2017 @20:30 UTC 🔼

Location: https://vdc.dyne.org/devuan

Present: blinkdog, centuriondan, chillfan, evilham, fsmithred, gnusrs, golinux, onefang, parazyd, rrq, tremon

Agenda 🔼

Old Business 🔼

  • (golinux) The archive links on the subscription pages of dng and devuan-dev are STILL non-functional. The one on dng used to work just fine before the migration but now reads: "Dng Archives. (The current archive is only available to the list members.)" That makes it a closed non-public list. The link to the archives on the devuan-dev list, which is supposedly now public, has NEVER worked. PLEASE FIX THIS!!!
  • (golinux) What has the gang of five/seven decided to call itself?
  • Options are:
    • CTTE - jaromil
    • Devuan Steering Committee (DSC) - John Franklin
    • (Devuan) Caretakers (CT) - golinux (+)(+)(+) <----- THIS ONE
    • Interim Devuan Executive Committee (IDEC) - Chanku
    • Loyal Order of Devuan Poobahs (LODP) - blinkdog
  • (fsmithred) slim does not install. This prevents building desktop-live iso and probably prevents desktop install from d-i. task-$-desktop packages require slim.
  • Bug report: https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=72
  • working slim: https://git.devuan.org/PeteGozz/slim/tree/tribulate0

Actions 🔼

  • ACTION: @parazyd will produce a one-shot script to import the MATE and Cinnamon repos by Antofox, and build them
  • (dimitsos): Are these packages going to be built for x86/amd only, or for ARM as well? The reason I ask is that I believe a distribution should be as consistent as possible, across the various architectures it supports.
    • (~parazyd) everywhere, i don't see why not
  • scripts ready, see parazyd's part below
    • (parazyd) we need to decide how we're going to build them, where to hold them on gitlab and who can build them
    • (tremon) so to recap: "where" will be the devuan-packages group, evilham will move them using parazyd's script parazyd will build them (built once, or do we get the usual build hooks?)
  • ACTION: @evilham will move the packages as soon as we have a list
  • ACTION: @CenturionDan will have a look at building util-linux for ascii (the build is stuck due to circular deps) -- Dan has past experience on that
  • (gnu_srs) @CenturionDan: Please try to find the time to fix the build
    • (golinux) saw util-linux activity on devuan-ci during the meet.
  • ACTION: @everybody propose viable solutions for the CDN setup for package mirrors
  • (golinux) ???
  • ~~DONE: @golinux sent an email to DNG saying that amprolla3 is now working -- @KatolaZ has prepared a draft of the email to be sent:~~ Thanks to blinkdog for his input.
  • ACTION: @parazyd will start working on a package with all the config files that cure various insanities introduced by upstream (non-devuan)
  1. We will start with vimrc (to solve the issue of mouse copy/paste), and include there more stuff as needed. We could call it "devuan-sanity" or something like that.
  • (golinux) postponed
  • ACTION: @KatolaZ make tests with drbd on the cluster (maybe convert the instances to drbd)
  • DONE for amprolla and pkgmaster
  • ACTION: @KatolaZ make tests of instance migration to the new server -- IN PROGRESS
  • ACTION: @KatolaZ plan for migration of all the instances to newtonia (ongoing)
  • ACTION: @everybody make proposals for a suitable backup strategy, on to it. top of instance redundancy
  • ACTION: @everybody complete the proposed ASCII ROADMAP
  • ACTION: @onefang help test out package mirroring on personal mirror server
  • ACTION: @everybody test the proposed packages, to check that they work in all possible update/upgrade scenarios:
  • Debian/Wheezy -> Devuan/Jessie
  • Debian/Jessie -> Devuan/Jessie
  • Devuan/Jessie -> Devuan/Ascii
  • Debian/Stretch -> Devuan/Ascii
  • Devuan/Ascii -> Devuan/Ceres
  • ACTION: @everybody test all possible install/update/upgrade paths involving ASCII, namely:
  • Fresh ASCII install
    • Devuan/Jessie -> Devuan/ASCII
    • (gnu_srs): Done, with eudev.
    • Debian/Stretch -> Devuan/ASCII
  • ACTION: @fsmithred will try a simplified debian/jessie --> devuan/ascii upgrade

gnu_srs 🔼

  • Can sommebody authorized build eudev 3.2.2-devuan2.5 for experimental, please? Then I can test more conversions, like:
  • Debian/Jessie -> Devuan/ASCII
  • Debian/Stretch -> Devuan/ASCII
  • amprolla3 issue: When doing the tests with piuparts using

New Business 🔼

blinkdog 🔼

  • redis-server
  • sysvinit hooks removed in buster (4.0.2)
  • Offered a Pull Request to restore them
  • Trying to understand the problem first might have helped
  • (gnu_srs): See the mail from Cris Lamb to [DNG] Debian testing drop redis, issue explained.
  • (evilham): I'd let this one go, this is not too much of an issue: init scripts are still there, customisation is still possible; if we have users complain, we can always either go the fork path or re-op this upstream.
    • DONE: blinkdog will reply to upstream devs to close the issue mentioning that's the pragmatic thing to do and that we'll re-open the issue if we have complaints.

golinux 🔼

  • With Evilham and parazyd's help re-themed the cryptpad
  • With Evilham rewrote the /os/releases page on d.o
  • Will redo the /os/etc/apt* pages now that amprolla3 is 'live'
  • Also need to update the Team page once they've decided on a name.
  • cryptpad
  • Do we want to globally disable the alertify popups that announce comings and goings to cryptpad? They can be disabled here:
  • Is anyone interested in packaging/maintaining our version of cryptpad for Devuan? Could be a bonus for us to have a deb.
  • The new theme patch is now in g.d.o
      * (blinkdog) I'd consider taking this. What's the git URL?
        * https://git.devuan.org/evilham/cryptpad/commit/0769c7f8586837c3f1cc9f00c06b04932e5216bf
        * https://github.com/xwiki-labs/cryptpad
        * (golinux) I've been chatting with them.  &nbsp;Will share in the morning.
      * Posted screenies of the changes and was asked to post the patch to their wiki. May become cryptpad default!

dimitsos 🔼

  • Which are the desktop environments that are going to be displayed in the ascii installer?
  • Is there a thought of providing an option to not install PulseAudio by default? How sane would that be? I mean I'm all for it, but e.g. how do you have audio, attaching an ARM stick on a TV screen with an HDMI cable, without PA?
  • I believe we should start some time a conversation about other web browsers that could be included in the distribution. Mozilla has chosen the corporate path. I would propose Pale Moon (https://www.palemoon.org/) and Librezilla (https://github.com/Librezilla).
  • (tremon) Yes! would like Pale Moon. There is already a debian version on OBS: https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home:stevenpusser&package=palemoon
  • (dimitsos) Importing in a distro a precompiled binary is not "software freedom, your way" at all. Importing sources, changing the default config files, applying patches and submitting them upstream is another story. It's the difficult path, but I believe it's worth it.
  • (chillfan) I think both would be good as firefox has become DRM encumbered and has simplicity issues. There are too few choices for users who aren't happy. I think it would be good to have palemoon included, as it's DRM free and many users like it.
  • (golinux) Note it doesn't work for video conferencing.
  • For what it is worth, another vote for Pale Moon. I use Chrome for anything that involves video, but Pale Moon for everything else.
  • (rrq) also using PaleMoon (now old version; binary tar; 27.3), though google-chrome-stable when WebRTC is required.

parazyd 🔼

fsmithred 🔼

  • installing devuan... , upgrading devuan... (it works!)
  • made a desktop live ascii iso for golinux to do magic (no task-packages)
  • made a desktop live lxde ascii iso to see if I could. I can. (again, no tasks installed.)

onefang 🔼

  • I'm awake, I can attend, it will be audio only, didn't suck that much bandwidth last time, I may even use a mic.
  • I cloned my Debian Jessie workstation, moved the HD to my test box, and converted it to Devuan Jessie. Worked fine, still need to test it
  • Next step after more testing, do the same on my actual workstation.
  • I've moved my ISO mirror from sledjhamr.org/devuan/ to sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/ as requested, could someone update devuan.org to match?
  • (Evilham) Will do tomorrow .
  • Still waiting for the go ahead and instructions to test package mirror on my server.

tremon 🔼

  • decide on a transition strategy for eudev. Suggested so far:
  • 1. keep the old package names. This requires:
    • an epoch
  • 2. use eudev and libudev1. This requires:
    • a transitional udev package which Depends: eudev,
    • or a devuan-config or devuan-base package of Priority: Essential which Depends: eudev
    • a Provides: udev (= $compatible_version) in the eudev package
    • an epoch, because libudev1 is the same package name
  • 3. use eudev and libeudev. This requires:
    • eudev to Provides: udev (= $compatible_version)
    • libeudev to Provides: libudev1 (= $compatible_version)
    • transitional packages for both udev and libudev1,
    • or a devuan-config or devuan-base package of Priority: Essential which Depends: eudev
    • (gnu_srs) Is this really needed??
    • but no epoch
  • 4. No transition at all, ship both udev/libudev and eudev/libeudev
    • (add a mention in the release notes that users can choose to install eudev after dist-upgrade)
    • (evilham) I think this is the easiest, most pragmatic solution. Adding warnings on upgrade so people know before hand that they either may need to manually change config or their network may
      1. maybe ask if kernel param change is desired
  • 5. others?

KatolaZ 🔼

rrq 🔼

  • attending; almost awake as usual.
  • had success with an AWS instance and a Debian Jessie 8.9 to Devuan Jessie upgrade; too easy. This was their very lean server image to start with, so maybe too many words about it already.
  • discussed 'slim' with fsmithred; the binary slim in ASCII wants to link with both libpng12.so and libpng16.so, which is wrong. And its package declares that it depends on libpng12 (which is wrong; should be libpng16). However, a fresh compile of its source settles for libpng16.so only, and its rebuilt bin package only declares that it depends on libpng16 (which is fine). It suggest that the build environment for the ASCII bin package build is out of whack in some
  1. The source declares dependency to "libpng" only, so the "12" and/or "16" appendix is derived in some way as part of the build
  • (parazyd) can you share a build log of this?
    • rrq removed text here
  • (fsmithred) For reference, Pete posted his adventures with slim:
  • https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1118
  • The web browser issue is not high on my wish list; but I would like cleanup of avahi, packagekit, policykit, consolekit, uuidd, dbus, gvfs, pulseaudio (probably a few more) from a "standard"
  1. Much too late to discuss for ASCII, I guess. I think some would be handled by avoiding installation of "recommended" packages in the task-* installation. (I much prefer the opt-in principle over the opt-out principle)
  • (dimitsos) Please keep in mind that, although each and every one of us has a wish list with priorities, there is also a user base that should be seriously taken into account. I agree though with the packages you mentioned above. Low-level packages are imho always a priority, but what a simple user sees should not be forgotten. I emphasize on the browser issue, because it's one of the most used applications in a
  • (evilham) second that

gnu_srs 🔼

  • Will attend on the pad and IRC.
  • When can we expect to find sources in experimental and ascii-* Sources file is empty!
  • (golinux) Please clarify what is missing.
  • (tremon) for example, see
  • Should we create a Devuan version of piuparts?
  • When eudev is verified to work with upgrades: Please remove all previous versions with epoch 220:, this will only create problems to replace with a lower epoch/no epoch version.